We’re joined by David Norris, Deputy General Manager of Colorado’s Eagle River Water & Sanitation District, for a conversation about turning operational savings into stronger utility services. His approach starts with examining everyday processes, bringing employees into the changes, and putting the savings where they are needed most.
David came to the district in 2020 after working in statewide public health finance. His background also includes manufacturing, where lean practices and process improvement shaped his approach to management. At Eagle River, those experiences help connect financial decisions with the district’s responsibility to protect public health.
The district serves Vail, Avon, and surrounding communities. About 10,000 customers support a system covering roughly 50 square miles, with more than 200 miles of infrastructure. Mountain terrain adds pumping costs and makes construction and supplies more expensive. Annual operating and capital budgets are approximately $75 million each. The district’s capital plan exceeds $2 billion over 10 years.
David says process improvements, automation, and AI have generated approximately $1.5 million in savings. Moving vendor payments toward ACH produced more than $300,000 in ongoing savings. Reviewing outside contracts and bringing selected work inside the organization generated more than half a million dollars in additional savings. Other improvements address collections, invoice processing, purchasing cards, and financial reserves.
Those savings support what David calls “reduce to add.” During one budget cycle, approximately $1 million in savings allowed the district to add six full time positions without increasing its budget. More than $150,000 in ongoing savings remained. The positions supported needs across operations, employee housing, and IT. Resources went where they could best support the organization’s priorities.
Financial resilience also required changes to customer billing. The district identified a structure that effectively gave larger homes cheaper water. It redesigned the system and communicated the changes through community outreach. A capital replacement charge now provides a clearer funding source for infrastructure. David says rates have roughly doubled during his tenure, with another doubling anticipated over the next decade. Building reserves and paying cash for more projects can help limit borrowing costs.
Major investments include upgrades to three wastewater plants, a planned reservoir, storage tanks, and underground pipes. AI offers opportunities to identify leaks and reduce administrative work. David sees it as a tool that helps employees apply their judgment and skills more effectively. Human oversight remains essential.
Lasting improvement depends on how leaders introduce change. David starts by explaining why a change is needed, involving affected employees, and addressing concerns about their roles. Internal change agents help carry that work throughout the organization. His advice to other utility leaders is straightforward: start small, walk through a process, and understand how the business actually works. Small wins can build into meaningful results.
More: Eagle River Water & Sanitation District: https://www.erwsd.org/
(00:00) Intro
(01:14) From Public Health Finance to Water Utility Leadership
(03:45) Serving a Mountain Community
(05:16) Aging Infrastructure and Financial Pressures
(06:56) A $2 Billion Capital Plan
(08:16) Creating a Culture of Savings
(11:11) Payments, Collections, Contracts, and Reserves
(14:31) “Reduce to Add”: Funding Six New Positions
(16:34) Technology Spending and Capital Priorities
(18:12) Measuring Cybersecurity Investment
(19:25) Redesigning Rates for Financial Resilience
(22:08) Plants, Reservoirs, Tanks, and Pipes
(26:05) Making Organizational Change Stick
21st Century Water - David Norris
Speakers: Mahesh Lunani & David Norris
[Intro Playing]
Voiceover (00:01):
Tremendous challenges and opportunities exist right now for our nation's water infrastructure. In this podcast, the industry's top leaders and innovative minds share their knowledge and insights for ensuring our water systems are operating safely and efficiently.
These discussions are designed to motivate and create vibrant 21st century water systems and the innovative workforce required to lead and operate them. This is 21st Century Water with your host, Aquasight founder and CEO, Mahesh Lunani.
Mahesh Lunani (00:32):
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Today, I have with me David Norris, Deputy General Manager of Eagle River Water & Sanitation District in Colorado. It is a mid-size regional utility providing water and wastewater services to Vail, Avon, and surrounding communities with approximately $150 million in budget.
Dave has done a phenomenal job at this utility driving savings, operational improvements, hiring employees without adding cost, and we'll talk a lot of that stuff today. I'm excited, Dave, to have you as a guest, and welcome to the 21st Century Water Podcast.
David Norris (01:12):
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Mahesh Lunani (01:14):
Let me get right into it. How did you get in the water sector and how did your experiences shape your leadership style and utility management?
David Norris (01:24):
I was a part of public health at a statewide level here in Colorado, and one of the divisions in public health was a water quality division. I started getting very interested in what they're doing and at a statewide level, I was their CFO, and I took an interest to that a little bit there from which part of that business did I resonate more with than others?
And expanding upon that, there was a role opened in 2020 here as the director of finance for the district, and I started interviewing there and actually, in New Orleans for the water and sewer board there. And so, I kind of had my flavor of understanding water, its impact on the community, what the utility game really was from a financial lens because these were CFO-like roles.
And then the interview happened and got here into Vail and took the role. And since then, it's really expanded my mind on what the utility does, what it services, the community. We all kind of know you turn on the tap, the water comes out, you flush stuff and it's treated, but you really don't know that much more from a user perspective generally.
So, since then, I've really understood the impact that it has on the community, what the precious resource, which is water, has, especially in the West. And a lot of it I've learned here is that the same problems I've seen in other organizations, I'm a very deep lean guy, process improvement person, and bringing the financial sector to that and trying to help organizations thrive is really where I've used that information and extrapolated it here at this organization and really focused on that key element that big, large or small, I've worked at all of them, everyone needs to look a little deeper into the business and try to automate process, and that is savings and that is budget, and that is helpful to the community.
Mahesh Lunani (03:17):
Wow. So, you not only came from a public health lens, but from a finance lens, and both of these are really relevant in the water sector. And by the way, I was surprised you had two extremes — ski slopes in Vail versus Mardi Gras in New Orleans. It's too extreme in terms of where you want to be.
David Norris (03:36):
Right. That was a very interesting time, just trying to figure out where is the next step for the career and everything happens for reasons, so I'm here in this beautiful environment.
Mahesh Lunani (03:45):
Absolutely, absolutely. It sure is beautiful. I want to talk about Eagle River's challenges in a moment. It's obviously unique in the sense you have fluctuating tourism, fluctuating demand, you got supply challenges associated with water given just where you are located. What makes running this utility different? And I get it that it's one of the first foray for you into utility business, but what's different?
David Norris (04:10):
Well, I would say there's a couple of main components. One is where we get our water here at this district is a little unique and different than city or more densely populated areas. We're at the headwaters of the river here in Vail, and that's a unique challenge and gift if you think of it from a water resources perspective.
But I think that we're small or medium-sized, I guess, a utility, but we service such a vast service area. It's about 50 square miles and over 200 miles of actual infrastructure that we have to maintain, only 10,000 customers.
So, we have a unique challenge there that's unique to us and different from other utilities either in Colorado or outside of that, that have a little bit broader scope or very limited scope. We're kind of in the middle there where there's a lot of infrastructure, there's also a lot of elevation changes that we have to pump water up that cost energy, time, money, all those things. So, I'd say that's a unique element to our business.
Mahesh Lunani (05:11):
Yeah. So, the landscape itself and also the supply side where you're getting it from.
David Norris (05:16):
Yep.
Mahesh Lunani (05:16):
Financial pressure, explain to me what kind of financial pressure your utility is under at the moment, and how does it compare against the general industry pressures that we see across the country?
David Norris (05:28):
Yeah, I would say we're very similar to what everyone else's challenge was, especially in the utility game. It's the capital infrastructure. When places were developed, they were usually developed quickly. And so, for us, the challenges are the aging infrastructure that was put in all at around the same time.
Well, guess what happens? It all comes due around the same time to be replaced. And so, today's dollars cost a lot more than will continue to cost more. And how do you acquire the funding to address the aging infrastructure so you can provide safe, clean drinking water and services to the community?
That is, I think, one thing that we're challenged with only having 10,000 customers. We still have $150, $200 million projects, and we only have that many customers to be the cost amongst outside of grants and other funding opportunities. And I think that's a unique challenge for us due to the number of ways we can divide and conquer.
And I also think that is correlated at a larger scale, sure, in country as far as aging infrastructure and the cost of renewing those. It's also the federal government regulations and mandates of better and tighter requirements, and that costs a lot of money for us to do that. We all appreciate that level of scrutiny and that tight controls on those things, but it does come at a cost.
Mahesh Lunani (06:56):
What is your CapEx and OpEx approximately per year?
David Norris (06:59):
Our operating is around 75 million, and I would say equal to that is about our capital expenditure budgets each year. So, we're about 50/50 there. Some years it can be a lot more, some years a lot less, depends on the capital expenditures, but we do have over a $2 billion 10-year capital plan of things that we've studied and things we know we need to do, regulatory driven projects.
We're working on, for us, huge reservoir development to continue to add additional supply for resiliency and more and more things like that addressing our aging infrastructure. It's over 2 billion.
Mahesh Lunani (07:40):
What I find amazing, and I speak to over 200 utilities every year, that for a 10,000-connection system to have 75 million OpEx and another 75 million CapEx, that's really high. Not because it's high, it's just probably your operating expenditure, your infrastructure demand must be really high.
David Norris (08:03):
The costs up here in the high mountains as we call it, it is more than Denver here in Colorado. So, it's definitely a lot more expensive to get material and supply up here. So, then the costs are associated to that.
Mahesh Lunani (08:16):
Absolutely. And I'm not benchmarking because it's where you are oriented utility-wise and who you're serving and how you're serving and how wide you're serving.
I want to talk about savings. In the past, I've had numerous interactions with CFOs, and you look at the infrastructure, you look at the operations through a different set of productive lens, which is how can I save money while delivering the same service and same quality and so on, which is equally an important part of running the water business.
Help me understand how have you’ve driven savings in different areas, and what did it take for you to drive those changes?
David Norris (08:52):
Sure. I would say for me, I have a manufacturing background way back in the day, grew up in the manufacturing realm, so Six Sigma lean stuff was pounded into your DNA basically. But having a government background, which is where I come from before the district, really helped me understand red tape, government waste and other things that I'm very passionate about, brought that here.
So, for here, we've saved a million and a half dollars in process improvements, in automation, in AI technology. And what we do is we have a culture of improvements here. And so, when I came in, it was the best that the predecessors could do, and I took it from here.
So, I have this very deep passion and background in the space, and I brought that here and I started looking under every single rock per se. I looked at coffee, I looked at paper, I looked at printers, I looked everywhere.
And really, I'm all about change management. How do you do it? You do it as best you can, but there's a very specific way of accomplishing it. You can do it very fast and quick, but does it stay? Does it stick? In my experience, the answer to that is no.
You need to bring your key stakeholders along with you and understand the why, what's in it for me, all these things. So, we've really been looking at that for six years or so now, and really in the past year, we've found some pretty significant savings.
So, for a million dollars, million and a half dollars, for us is a huge deal because the way I think about it is if we are limited in revenue, if we are limited in resources, then what's the best next solution would be to reduce expenditures to automate process and stop wasting time and effort and money on some normal basic business operating processes that you can use AI technology and other things to automate those said processes.
So, that's what we did and we really worked on the culture. The culture has to come with you, and you have to have these change agents along the way that continue that march towards that improvement. Otherwise, it's short-lived, it's quick, it's abrupt, and then it goes back to the way it was before.
Mahesh Lunani (11:11):
It's fascinating. You talk about change management, talk about AI culture, bringing along people to drive process improvements. What specific, if you had to pick your top three areas, you actually drove process improvements, what would those be?
David Norris (11:27):
How we pay the bills. Number one, I always say this when I talk to other utility people is, "When's the last time you looked at how you pay your bills?" Everyone has to pay those bills, but that paper that you print the checks on, the ink you use, the time for someone to stuff an envelope, all of that can be calculated and automated.
ACH is an easy way. They get their money quick; we get the money out the door. Sure, there's a little bit of delay on cash management. If you want to send a check and wait, then you get more interest. But at the end of the day, it's about that process for us was huge. That yielded over $300,000 in savings and continual, not just one time. These are continual savings going forward right there.
The other is how you collect your revenue. So, for utilities, I've heard this so many times, we haven't raised rates in (fill in the blank) X years, and that is not a good thing. To me, it's about financial health as much as it is about the aging infrastructure and the protection of public health. So, for us, we really focused on both of those things and how fast, what's on our aging receivables, how long has this been, and putting in more policies around that perspective.
The third thing we really focused on was the contracts, the P-card, or the purchasing card, elements can be vast for a company like us. So, the way that's handled, the way that's coded, the way that's paid, we've used it so that the invoices come in, it reads them, and then populates where it thinks it should be AI, and then we continue on down that path.
One other element we did, which was important for a quasi-governmental entity such as ours, is our fund balance policies. What happens if we sell a lot more water? Do we have the autonomy to add to fund balance and have a healthier fund balance? And what we're shifting into is paying cash for these capital projects versus bonding, which costs a lot more money for our customers.
So, I would say in those ways specifically that we address these things. And the last thing we looked at was contracts. How many things are on contract that we have staff internal that can do that work and cut the contracts and bring the work in-house? Sometimes the contracts are necessary, and sometimes they're wasteful.
So, we looked at our current contract that we had, and there was two or three of them that yielded over half a million right there, and we were able to, even with staff internally, still save a lot of money.
Mahesh Lunani (13:59):
So, a lot of it sounds like finance-related topics, payables, receivables, efficiency in your contracting processes, fund balance. So, instead of raising money and paying interest, trying to leverage internal accruals, things like that.
Those are all the levers a CFO has at their disposal to turn the knobs. And the fact that you have a manufacturing background, which I can relate to, you're down into the details of every element of the workflow.
David Norris (14:29):
Yes.
Mahesh Lunani (14:31):
I want to talk about the fact that you hired people as a result of this no additional cost because you were able to save so you can hire people. Where did you deploy these resources? What other utilities can learn from it?
David Norris (14:44):
Sure. A lot of the things that I think about here are something I coined as a “reduce to add.” So, every time we try to automate process and when it becomes meaningful or impactful, this last — not this current budget cycle, but the one before it, we were able to capture around a million dollars in savings. And it was very easy for me to have a conversation with our boards and say, "Hey, without adding to our budget, zero add, we can add six FTE that we desperately need in certain areas." And I'll talk about that in a second, but we can add them without adding costs.
And honestly, what I did is struck a deal with not only can we add the six, I'll give back this certain amount. I think it was over $150,000 in just continual savings on top of it. So, the way that's thought of at the board level is, okay, you're adding continual costs, but these costs will be replaced of a normal cost that had already been happening so that was well-received and well-appreciated. The board is now at a place where they're now expecting more and more of that.
When we find these savings, it's a holistic approach that I've developed here, and it's around where are the resources needed, not necessarily where are the savings acquired. It could be in one department, but that savings can be used.
And so, for us, we always need more water and wastewater operators, so we put a couple in there. We have a robust housing program because of where we are located. We are in the housing game, so it's a big part of our day.
So, we need another person in there and another IT professional in that group, just to name a few there, is kind of where we spread it across the entire organization to put the FTE where they were most needed as it aligns to our biggest strategic priorities.
Mahesh Lunani (16:34):
Got it. I meant to ask you this earlier: where is your biggest OpEx being spent (besides obviously personnel), and where's your biggest CapEx going to in terms of the outlays?
David Norris (16:48):
Sure. I would say our second biggest operating expenditure is going to be in technology. It's going to be in our cyber contracts, our cyber expenditures. As we can all relate to some of the most recent tax, it's very critical and vital that we keep that up.
We also manage to a ratio that I've developed on how much are we spending on these technologies in AI and other protection expenditures in an OpEx way as it relates to the total budget, as it relates to the IT budget. There are some AWWA standards to follow, and that's what we anchor to. So, I would say outside of people, that's where the OpEx is mainly spent.
Capital currently is we're underway on a wastewater plant overhaul on Regulation 85 and some other temperature-based components that are driven from unfunded regulation-based mandates. And so, that's where our biggest expenditures are. If it's not that, it'll be the reservoir that we're looking to develop in 2029, or start breaking ground there.
And if it's not that, it's usually a replacement of aging infrastructure, replacement of segments of pipe, where the breaks are and the data we have associated where are the breaks in a certain community, let's get to that and let's put our expenditures there.
Mahesh Lunani (18:12):
I'm curious, it reminds myself of the days when I was managing or reviewing P&L and balance sheets and cash flow statements. What is AWWA standard on a percentage of tech spend as a percentage of total revenues? What is that number, and what is it normally composed of?
David Norris (18:28):
The best way to break it down would be the cyber spend. So, it's anywhere from 0.5 to 2% of your O&M budgets. So, that's the range that I manage too, and that correlates to either staff that are physically doing that work or for us, 24/7, 365 protection on a lot of our SCADA networks and our PLCs and even just the basic computers that we all have in our network is where those expenditures are derivative of.
And then that ratio is kind of how we measure, are we up to standard there, and what do we need to do from a strategic lens and communicate to our board that is like, "Hey, we need to elevate this because of X." And we have those conversations a lot with our boards to bring them up to speed with where we are. We have dashboards for that, and all kinds of data associated to that.
Mahesh Lunani (19:25):
Very good. I want to talk about rates and resiliency; both are important words in this industry. What's outlook in terms of rate increases at your utility, and what's your approach to driving resiliency?
David Norris (19:40):
That's a good question, and one we're all challenged with. In 2023, I believe here we kind of had started that underway here as we looked at our rate package. What is our system? I'm a systems person, so I'm looking at how does the revenue come in? What is the base almost guaranteed funds? What are the variabilities in water use and things like that?
How does that fluctuate with tourism? And if the snow for us isn't here, tourism is down, therefore, the wastewater side in the winter is hit harder on the revenue side. So, how do we have a more resilient system?
And we found a fundamentally billing flaw in our system that where inadvertently, the bigger the house, the cheaper the water, which is very common from my discussions around that kind of equivalent based multiplier that is applied. And what we found is it was actually giving the bigger the homes cheaper water.
So, we have done a series of redesigns so that we've gone out to the community, done road shows, fixed our systems so that everyone pays for the same amount of water used, so the same dollar amount of water used. And that means some rather large increases to some of the higher users.
Switch to today, we've overhauled every component of our billing structure. Yes, it's more complex, but we've added capital replacement funds as a billing component. So, it's a very stable, very clear, transparent rate we charge, so that we can get into front of this aging infrastructure and try to acquire funds where we need it most.
And that's kind of our biggest strategy today, is that aging infrastructure will be something that we will always look at. Bonding is going to cost our rate payers two to every dollar. $2 to every dollar is double over 30 years.
So, how can we mitigate that? The costs are going to be the cost, but how do we pay as much in cash as possible and bond to the rest to borrow the rest, versus just only borrowing and keeping the rates lower?
So, for us, we've pretty much doubled our rates since I've been here and a lot of things you could say about that, but honestly, going forward, we're looking at another doubling in the next 10 years just to try to get in front of our needs as our needs are always growing and our fund balances need to elevate to 500 and 600 day standards in today's world, so that we have enough resiliency there.
Mahesh Lunani (22:08):
As a CFO, your hands are full. I mean, I could tell rates, you're thinking about cost structures, benchmarks. It's a hell lot of work, and also price increases, bonding, financial capacity in the future. I want to talk about (and you briefly mentioned where the money is flowing) — on the CapEx side.
If you have to identify the big CapEx projects, and I don't know in your role if you're tracking those top four or five CapEx projects.
David Norris (22:38):
I would say there's definitely a wastewater plant efficiency all over. We have three different plants, so we're a little unique in that space is we have three different plants in our service area. So, each one of them needs to be overhauled. So, there's one.
The other is our water supply. So, we're building that reservoir. That's a very high number, but that one's a very critical element to our future and our customer's future for resiliency. I would say the third is tank overhaul and replacement, and then just literally not the coolest stuff, but the pipes in the ground.
For us, it's $1,200 to $1,400 a foot, and we have 212 miles of that stuff for both systems. So, we have a lot there just to keep in front of that, so that we replace them at a click that we can manage.
Mahesh Lunani (23:31):
So, pipelines, plants, reservoirs, storage tanks, pretty much the entire infrastructure where the money is going. I want to talk about something you referred in the earlier part of this conversation: technology, data, and AI. Tell me where you see in the future utilities going, specifically in your case, and where do you think are the opportunities moving forward?
David Norris (23:56):
Yeah, I think there's a couple components. One is AI technology and sounding. Where are your leaks? Can you find them? If they're surfacing, you see it, but can you hear it? And there's a lot of technology out there that we're broaching into that will help us get in front of the leaks where they are and come up with a plan to attack it, non-revenue wire and all the things associated with that.
The other is AI and technology internally, and it's all about the red tape per se of the administrative functions. Automating those has to be part of the game as well. An accountant today is going to be different than accountants 10 years ago. And I think in 10 years from now, it's more about full autonomous AI in that space.
It's where we're going, whether we like it or not, and really embracing that small, medium, or large from a utilities perspective will be the key to success in the future.
Mahesh Lunani (24:53):
I came out of a meeting a few weeks ago where the operators were scared about AI. They thought it would take their jobs and so on. So, one of the things should be more educated upon is that it would more augment the work you're doing, drive more efficiency, more accuracy than replacement, especially a very physical nature of the work the utilities do. The robots are not there to go fix pipes.
David Norris (25:20):
No.
Mahesh Lunani (25:21):
Still humans, right?
David Norris (25:22):
Right, and there needs to be human intervention with AI anyway. But yeah, we definitely hear that here, but we also have reviews to do. We also have these administrative hurdles to jump through that we can automate and not spend as much effort and time there that you can use it as a tool like a calculator is the way I say here, is that it's not here to replace you, it's here to actually put your skills better used in your brain and your insights into what you're seeing and reading as far as the data is associated and make a well-informed data-driven decision, versus inputting the data into some system or the button pushing of the work.
Mahesh Lunani (26:05):
No, excellent. You talked about change. When you were describing it, it just dawned on me as if I was speaking to our chief operating officer because she talks about driving change in incremental ways since she came from a manufacturing background just like you. And I have for four years also worked in the automotive space.
So, tell me a little bit about your approach to change. You've been in the manufacturing, you've been in the public health space, now utility space, quasi-finance, quasi-operating role. So, tell me how you drive change.
David Norris (26:40):
First is to articulate the why. Change for change's sake isn't the best solution. There has to be a why behind why we're changing. And if you're not changing, you're being left behind, I say it all the time. It's part of our world today. Anywhere you look, the phones we have, they're antiquated in a year or probably when you buy them.
In that same way, we need to articulate the why. So, I usually start with why we're here today, why we're talking about this change. Here are the stakeholders that we know of that can be impacted by this change. What are we missing? Have them be a part of that conversation so they feel a part of the improvement, feel a part of that solution going forward.
Feel like their voiced concerns are going to be heard and you have to have a plan of attack for, you're replacing me by automating my job, and no, it's better, we want you to do this instead. Having a plan of attack and being prepared before you even start that venture is key. And then throughout the process, having change agents to be a part of that, drive it deeper in the organization.
While I'm passionate, I can't do all the work, but I can influence culture to do that said work. And then they feel like they're making that meaningful change and they get the understanding of why we are improving certain areas of our business so that they feel part of it. I think that's the biggest element to it.
Everything else is about what you're doing and how you're doing it, and the bottlenecks and all that mapped out as you kind of visualize it.
Mahesh Lunani (28:14):
Yeah. It's people involved in the space and it's talking to them.
David Norris (28:18):
Yeah.
Mahesh Lunani (28:19):
It's humans, right?
David Norris (28:19):
They're the experts.
Mahesh Lunani (28:21):
Yeah, you got to connect. I want to ask this closing question. You've been over six years in the utility space, what would be your lessons learned, your advice to your peers that is looking to drive this kind of change or transformation, and what's the one thing you wish you knew better?
David Norris (28:43):
That's a great question. I would say just start. I mean, thinking about all the things that you want to do or all the things you want to try to get done can be daunting. I think picking one small thing and walking it, if you're a leader or whomever influential in the utility space, walk the process, walk what you're trying to see, pick one thing, start there, start small. These small wins add to big wins. That's number one.
One thing I think I've learned over the space is really try to understand the core functions of your business. And yes, we're here to provide water and wastewater services to our community. We also have a field component; we have a technology. Everyone's part of this bigger vision.
And so, really understanding the operations and the administrative sides before you start implementing these changes I think will be key to success in the future.
Mahesh Lunani (29:38):
Yeah, excellent. So, listen, I mean, this is a great conversation, a public health official with a CFO background, great improvements in process level, applying AI in many aspects of your business functions, driving relatively a large CapEx, OpEx compared to the size of the utility you are at, and that's to do with structurally how you are set up and driving all kinds of change and innovation.
I'm really excited to not only have this conversation with you, but share your experiences with over 7,000, 8,000 listeners we have. So, this is super exciting, David.
David Norris (30:20):
Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's been really a fun conversation. That's all this is about, is sharing the information so that others can pick up on any parts of this that are material to them.
Mahesh Lunani (30:31):
Excellent. Well, thank you.
[Outro Playing]
Voiceover (30:33):
Join host and AQUASIGHT founder and CEO Mahesh Lunani again next month for another episode of 21st Century Water, produced by JAG in Detroit Podcasts.