Alyson Watson is our first non-utility CEO guest, and she lends her perspective from the private sector. Alyson is the CEO of Woodard and Curran, a planning, funding, engineering, construction and O&M (operations and maintenance) organization.
Alyson talks about three big trends in the water industry: resiliency, the switch from an extraction to a creation economy, and ESG (environmental and social governance). These trends include climate change, viewing nothing as waste, and water equity.
Water customers now have access to data they never saw before. Sometimes, they even see more than the utility companies. This necessitates a need for increased communication between all parties involved.
Mahesh and Alyson talk about the differences between running a regional and a national organization - Alyson has done both.
Woodard and Curran partner with their public and private clients, sometimes testing out ideas with private clients that can be translated to the public ones.
As far as investment in the future, Watson believes there are unprecedented funding opportunities in the water and wastewater areas. But the biggest investments will be in people.
Mahesh and Alyson talk about the new workforce and the challenges of maintaining work-from-home flexibility but still fostering company culture and relationships between employees. This also relates to the labor market, and not just recruiting for Woodard and Curran, but also for the water industry as a whole.
Finally, we talk about the place for new innovation in the industry, and what Alyson would like to leave behind as a legacy.
More:
Woodard and Curran Website: https://www.woodardcurran.com/
Alyson Watson Bio: https://www.woodardcurran.com/people/alyson-watson/
Aquasight Website: https://aquasight.io/
Mahesh: Well, good morning, Good afternoon, good evening. I'm with Alyson Watson, Chief Executive Officer of Woodard and Curran, a 1000, 1100 people 29 office planning, funding, engineering, construction, and O&M organization. Prior to being at Woodard and Curran, she was President and CEO of RMC Water and Environment. She has a BS and a Master's in Chemical Engineering from Stanford University.
I really look forward to talking to Alyson on her strategy to drive solutions to address water waste, water challenges. In the 21st century. Alyson, welcome. I'm really excited to look forward to the conversation.
Alyson: Thank you so much, Mahesh. I'm thrilled to be here.
Mahesh: And you are the first non-utility CEO to be on this podcast, so really getting your perspective is very unique to this particular series of podcasts.
Let me get right into it. As a leader of an engineering organization, you probably think a lot about the megatrends that drive the water waste water sector. What are those trends?
Alyson: Yeah, that's a great question and one that we do talk about a lot and think about. And I would really put at the top of the list really probably three, one being resiliency ,one this shift from an extraction to a creation economy.
And then probably the third would be ESG. And so I'll elaborate a little bit on each of those. When I'm talking about resiliency, it is climate preparedness. So it's things like water scarcity, but it's everything from that right through basic business continuity, really across all dimensions. So regardless of whether you're in a water scarce area or an area where you're experiencing flooding or other extreme events, business continuity has just really risen to the surface.
I think we're seeing that across the country as one of the really major drivers for a lot of the focus in the water industry and then extraction to creation. So as we're thinking about this and we're thinking about business continuity and climate preparedness, there's also a big push and a trend that we're seeing moving away from viewing anything as a waste.
So really in the context of One Water, you know, again, tied to that climate resiliency and preparedness concept. We don't see anything as a waste product. We see it as a resource to be recovered, and we see this across industries. So you'll see it in manufacturing, you see it in energy, and I think we're really seeing it in water now.
So where we're seeing new technologies that are looking at how can really we reuse fat, oils, and grease, how can we look at biochar? How can we look at water reuse in a different way so that we really don't have a waste product? We have multiple products and resources that we're recovering. And then really the third trend, which kind of pulls it together, I think is ESG.
And this is new in the water sector. We are seeing it a lot in the environmental. It's coming into water and we're not really hearing those letters used as much in water yet. But the concepts are fully there and in the water space, we're seeing that as things like sustainable design. From the environmental perspective.
We're talking a lot about water equity, which is really squarely and that social part of ESG, and then funding and the ability to have transparent infrastructure projects really falling in the G. So we might not be using ESG terminology in water, but all of those trends are entering the water space and really coming from the environmental space and influencing what we're doing every.
Mahesh: Sounds like it's a lot to look forward to with a very dynamic set of trends that you say, especially circular economy. That's a very exciting, rethinking what you think about wastewater, right? And what it means for a community.
Alyson: Absolutely. And it's a huge, huge opportunity too, for us as water professionals to think across traditional aspects of water.
So to think across water, across reclaimed water, across storm water and flood. And of course, waste water. And how are we really thinking about resource recovery and optimizing and every drop counts. And we've been talking a little bit internally, you hear the term one water, but it's really all water or every water that we're talking about because every water is important and no matter what is in it, it's about thinking about how to use those components as resources.
Mahesh: Absolutely fascinating. Now, as these trends unfold, you as a CEO of the organization, along with the rest of your team, how are you trying to capitalize on these trends?
Alyson: Well, we think we're positioned quite well.
We are a firm that's focused on only water in the environment, which is pretty unique for our size and really we consider sustainability to be, I'll say, baked into everything that we do. So for us, it's really a matter of amplifying this. So taking that resiliency lens and using that to amplify the things that are really core to what we do every day.
And one of those things being innovation. So we see innovation as a key to circular economy and to resource recovery and finding ways to, again, use every water and every last drop. And then for us, also, because we are in both environment and water, ESG is just a major focus for us. And I would say we're ahead of the industry in many ways in this respect.
And we see water equity and equity more broadly as one of those real challenges facing our industry and our ability to really bring the benefits that we want to our communities. So we've really doubled down on our equity initiatives because again, we do see that as a major gap. And what we wanna strive to do is to bring truly diverse perspectives, to develop better solutions, ultimately to support community needs.
Mahesh: So I wanna ask a follow up question on this. Have you had to redirect anything in the organization because these mega trends are unfolding. Cause I've seen in my past, having advised Fortune 500 CEOs, when they see trends unraveling, then they say, Okay, we gonna change the organization, we gonna change the investment pattern, and so on.
Have you had to do anything to capitalize on these, in that sense?
Alyson: It's a very timely question. Last year we developed a strategic plan and we're in the process of moving forward through implementation of that plan. And it does require saying no to a lot of things. And so it's not so much a change in direction for us because again, this is really critical and central to the core of our mission and our vision, but it's really about not doing the things that are not in direct support of where we see the future.
Mahesh: Kind of focus resources on these big trends.
Alyson: That's exactly right.
Mahesh: Perfect, perfect. So let me ask you, cuz utilities or the water, waste water agencies are the customers you serve. Have those customers evolving in any way? Are they different now than what they used to be 10 years ago?
Alyson: Absolutely. I think the end user as well as the utility, there's just a sophistication that wasn't there previously.
There's an access to data and information and a requirement, a responsibility for transparency that didn't used to be there 10 years ago even, and that's only becoming more and more significant. So really I would say communication for example, is no longer a soft skill. It's a necessity, . So when we think about the challenges that utilities are facing, there's certainly all of the technical challenges and those are only getting greater and greater.
But I think there's a layer now that previously was maybe less important, and that is really being able to communicate the value proposition to the end user because there's a demand for that. And we as engineers like to talk about things like pipe diameter, for example.
Mahesh: That's right. That's right.
Alyson: And the rate payer doesn't necessarily care as much about pipe diameter as having clean water for their children.
So there's this requirement to be able to connect the value of the things that we're doing to the value and outcome experience by the end user that didn't used to be there. And it's a new skillset, I think, and really a requirement for utilities. And then I would also say, in some cases the end user has access to more and potentially better data than the utility.
So it raises questions that utility managers need to be able to address. It raises really a need for that partnership with the end user and the utility. And then if they're working with a consulting firm like ours, we really wanna be able to be a partner too. But I think the end user is much more critical to the utility mission than they probably were 10 years ago.
Mahesh: Oh. That tells the importance of water, that tells the importance of investments that are made. And it sounds like you're dealing in an environment now with both the end user and the customer all have tons of data and a lot more intelligent in terms of how they present themselves.
Alyson: Yeah, that's exactly it.
Mahesh: Excellent, excellent. So I know you've been in this role for two years. Prior to that you were running a regional firm. How is it different between running a national firm and a regional firm and what are the pros and cons?
Alyson: It's definitely different. You know, I could joke and say it's just more zeros on the end , but that's really not doing it justice.
Being CEO of a larger firm is exciting because we have this really fabulous platform a smaller regional firm really would struggle to bring the range of services that we provide and to really be able to deliver the value to a utility or a community that we can provide just by sheer breadth of services and lessons learned from across the country. At the same time a larger firm is a little bit typically slower to react.
So we talked about mega trends and. You know, the things are changing more quickly every day. And so the larger firms have to be really focused on autonomy and empowerment of people. Because really that's the only way to be able to react quickly and to pivot and to maintain pace with the rate of change around us.
So exciting because the platform is there and a lot of potential benefit to our clients and communities. But just this real need to make sure that we're still driving empowerment and autonomy through the organization so that we can maintain pace with the changes around us.
Mahesh: Right. And I would think the range of water issues that you deal with in Northeast versus, you know, West Coast versus Southwest, they're totally different.
So your organization probably has a breadth of capabilities now that serve all kinds of water issues that the country faces.
Alyson: That's right. Absolutely. It's interesting to think about, for example, water scarcity or water pressures. In New England, you don't necessarily think of that as an area that might have water scarcity issues, but they faced drought.
We have lessons learned from geographies like California that we've been working in for decades that are dealing with some of these issues. And the same thing, the drivers may be different, but the challenges can be consistent. So thinking about ways that we can bring lessons learned from different geographies to clients across the country.
Mahesh: Right now, I remember when I started this company seven years ago, and I moved from a totally different sector. I was told Mahesh,, you should know all these engineering firms, And I didn't pay attention at that time to that group. But clearly now we have tons of partnerships and there's a whole lot of engineering firms, both regional and national.
How do you differentiate, like what is the single biggest factor in your business to succeed? How does it work?
Alyson: Yeah, that's a great question too. And one of the things that I actually love and am passionate about with Woodard and Curran is that I do believe that we are different. And there's really two that I think that we are different.
So first, we are completely focused on affecting positive change in the communities where we live and work. People are at the core of our mission. It's why we were founded as an organization. They're at the core of our vision, and that includes our employees as well as our clients and our communities.
So, we have a vision, and it's very simple. It's clean water, safe environment, healthy communities, and happy people. And that really distills down what we're about as an organization. We take it very seriously and we wake up every day with the goal of solving the most pressing water and environment related challenges facing our communities because we all believe that clean water in a safe environment are critical components to a high quality of life.
And so I think that's one thing that is just very important to us and very special. And then the second piece that's more tangible potentially is that we integrate science, engineering and construction with funding and operations. And most firms really don't have the capacity to do all of those things, especially at our size.
We operate more than 50 plants across the country, and in some cases entire public works departments. And in the last 10 years, we've secured more than a billion dollars in funding for our client's projects. So when we bring together our engineering, our funding services and our O&M capabilities, we are really serving as a true partner to the communities where we're living in working.
And so we're able to help them, not just to identify their needs and start to program that out as a typical engineering firm. But really do capital planning where we're bringing in funding to offset the cost of that. And then ultimately what I like to say is that we can't accomplish our vision without O&M.
So you can actually design and construct the perfect facility, but if it's not well operated, you're still not able to really help that community to realize those benefits. So for us, it's really that combination when we bring together the science engineering. And the funding and the O&M we're able to be a real partner to the community, and that's where we're able to really move the needle and realize those benefits that are so core to our vision.
And that combination is what really makes us special and differentiated.
Mahesh: You know what I find fascinating with that response is you get the money for your customers, you design it, build it, and then you operate it. So if I'm a city and a customer, I don't have to find another source. Right? You can do it all like what I call a full service package, you know?
Alyson: That's right. And we think too, it de-risks a bit for the utility that we're able to operate it. So even if we turn it over, if we're able to start up and operate, then the community has the peace of mind of knowing that it's gonna work when they take it over. It's not, you know, designed and built and now it's up to them to deal with any startup issues.
We de-risk that portion for our clients.
Mahesh: Right. Now, as a CEO, you ought to think about investments in the next five years cuz no growth comes without investment. You can only grow if you put money into a system. Where's your investment focus in the next five years?
Alyson: Again, you asked a little bit about are we making choices about where we're investing and the answers, and we are doubling down on what we think we do best that aligns with those macro trends.
So we're focused on taking our funding capabilities to the next level. So there's unprecedented funding programs out there for water and wastewater. We are very focused on taking our funding and financing capabilities to the next level and helping to really lead communities in that way so that they're fully leveraging the dollars that are available to them for the projects that they desperately need.
We see business continuity and resiliency as the challenges of our time. So we're actually working to bring innovation and technology to better address. In some cases existential needs. So it's these challenges are beyond the traditional challenges we've faced. We think it's really critical to be doubling down on innovation to help to address some of these challenges.
And then finally, our people, and I can't say it enough, that we are a truly people focused, firm. So a large part of our strategy and really where we're investing, is focused on supporting our people. We are embarking on an era where there are new ways of working and we're also working really hard to develop and operationalize an equity lens so that we can strive for equity in all we do.
So that's both internally and externally on projects that we're working on.
Mahesh: Well, I'm glad you talked about people, because the professional services firm is nothing without the people not being at the core of the delivery mechanism. And that funding part excites me because you build up so much experience and capability in the past, and now with this $55 billion of BIL coming in, I would think it's a huge strategic advantage that you have developed the chops of what it takes to get funding for your customers.
So I'm looking forward to how, what the next four or five years could be for Woodard and Curran, just looking at your capabilities and what's coming.
Alyson: Yeah, we're excited too, and it's really interesting. You know, our approach, we've done a lot of forward looking planning, capital planning with clients and we've done a lot of grant writing for clients.
But what we're trying to do is be much more proactive in looking at what the funding opportunities are and then matching that to projects and clients where they may or may not even be looking at it, or it may be projects that are necessary and wouldn't go forward without funding. So really taking that proactive approach to understanding the funding opportunities and bringing those to clients proactively as opposed to understanding potentially the projects or the client needs and looking for funding.
So kind of flipping the approach on that. To really leverage those opportunities because they really are unprecedented and we wanna make sure that, we're doing the best we can to connect the dollars with the projects that most need them.
Mahesh: So I wanna ask you this question, right? No CEO job comes without not having challenges, right?
I live it every day. I'm sure you live it every day. So what are your three biggest strategic challenges and how are you addressing them?.
Alyson: Well, the big one, I think if you ask any, probably utility manager or CEO, we'll probably talk about people, right? The labor market right now is, it's tough and it's not just recruiting and retaining people, although it's absolutely that.
It's really bringing people into the industry. We're looking at that on both fronts. So of course we are very focused on recruiting. We're very focused on what we can do to maximize the benefit of working at Woodard and Curran, so that we're retaining people and keeping them engaged, but we're also looking at what we can do to help to bring people into the industry.
And I mentioned our focus on equity. That is one area that as an industry, I think we can do better. I think we need to be attractive as an industry to younger generations and offer the opportunity across a more diverse workforce that we may have in the past. We're looking on the O&M side at whether we can do things like develop an O&M university where we can start to work, partner with high schools or vocational schools to bring operators into the industry.
Even if they don't work for us, if they come into the industry, we feel that that's a benefit to us. An organization working in this industry. So we're looking at both within Woodard and Curran, how we can recruit and retain more effectively, but also how we can help the industry to be an attractive employer and to bring more talent into the industry as a whole.
Because we think that'll benefit everybody. So that's probably the biggest one. You know, other things that we're looking at or other strategic challenges? Innovation. The water industry. There's so many great, innovative ideas and pilot technologies that are out. And there's this real barrier to being able to get them from concept to proven technology that's now being speced.
And a lot of that from our perspective, where we sit, there's a lot of business model limitations there. So when we are under contract for time and materials and the scope is how we're gonna do something. Immediately the incentive for an organization to really innovate on a project is gone. Not only is there no potential reward for innovation, we really can't because it's not consistent with what we're scoped to do.
So we're looking at different business models and partnering with good clients to look at things like infrastructure as a service. Different types of outcome based contracting to try to create a pathway to bring innovation to the industry. Because I think ultimately that benefits not just the client you're working with on that opportunity, but once it's proven, it's a much broader benefit for ultimately society.
And then finally, you know, one of the challenges that we face and I think is a common challenge, probably more for the consulting engineering side, is how to maintain culture and passion and engagement of our people while providing flexibility. So again, the way that people are working has really changed over the past few years, and we at Woodard and Curran have completely embraced the hybrid workforce.
We think there are tremendous benefits from a work life balance perspective and employee flexibility. But the flip side is how we maintain our culture. How do we keep people connected to the organization and to what we're trying to. And our approach there has really been to continue to recenter on purpose.
So again, we're a very purpose driven organization. I mentioned early on we get up every day with the goal of leaving the world a better place, and I do think that if you could help people to connect to purpose and you can really cultivate that shared purpose among your people, it does help to generate that camaraderie.
But we're also looking at some different approaches where we're deliberately creating programs to bring people together. So even if they're not working in the office, there's a learning and development program or their team building activities, and that's something that is somebody's responsibility to plan those, to make sure they happen and to create those opportunities for people to come together.
Because as much as we don't expect people to come and work in the office every day, we do want to bring people together for those team building opportunities because we think it creates a richer connection to not just the organization, but to the work we're trying to accomplish.
Mahesh: You know, it's fascinating, the three strategic challenges you mentioned, plus how you're addressing them, and one of them stuck out to me is the business model challenge.
And the fact that you are trying to look at new business models, and this is an industry that's not readily accepting new business models. So I would be fascinated by following, how you're gonna move the needle in this space. Because I personally think that there's many opportunities for business model changes, but it requires some real pioneers to make that happen.
And because it's an public asset, there's politics involved, there's regular citizens involved and financing involved. To me, this is fascinating topic and I wanna follow that more.
Alyson: Yeah, and one of the things, again, I didn't mention this, but at Woodard and Curran, we work for both public and private clients, and so it's water, but for our private clients, water and wastewater is often not core to their mission.
So it's something that in many cases, they're more likely to want to fully outsource or basically not to have their own internal staff focusing on. So it creates opportunities for us to pilot in different approaches. So for example we're looking at infrastructure as a service with a private sector client.
And if we can show, if we can demonstrate that works and that's effective, then it's an opportunity to bring that to the public sector. So I do think working across public and private provides those opportunities because as you noted, the public sector has a lot more hoops to jump through, a lot more requirements.
Once something has been proven, it's a lot easier to navigate that, and so we take the opportunity to try to prove some of these concepts in the private sector. And then leverage that experience to a proven technology in the public sector.
Mahesh: Yeah. You have a test ground and then you can transfer that to the public sector. That's fascinating.
Alyson: Exactly.
Mahesh: I wanna switch to another question here. If a water waste water sector leader, a utility leader comes to you and ask Alyson, tell me, how do I prepare for the 21st Century Water Challenge? What is your response to that?
Alyson: That's a big question.
Mahesh: I know it's so open ended. It's an open-ended question.
I'm sure you're gonna follow that up with 10 other questions. Just like any consultant, you have to ask more questions to give a right answer. I do agree with you. So that was a bad question I've asked, but
Alyson: Oh no, no, it's a great question and I think I would say it's all about knowing your vulnerabilities.
So every utility, every water manager is gonna be facing different challenges. And I think it's about knowing your vulnerabilities and then being able to address them systematically again. I really do think business continuity at its core is key. And again, encompassing everything from, you know, climate resiliency, resiliency in the face of extreme events or, you know, unplanned events, even cyber attacks right down to effectively managing repair and replacement budgets.
Then optimizing that through the use of technology. So every system has different pressures. And that's what should drive the priorities. And there's really no one size fits all. The one size fits all, I would say is in recognizing your unique challenges and then prioritizing solutions based on overall enterprise risk.
Mahesh: Yeah, I love the response because, in this sector, the customers, the utility customers get in the news only when it's bad news. And the fact that your response is what is your vulnerability? You're really asking them, can you minimize your risks so you don't get in the news? I think that sounds perfect to me.
Alyson: Well, thank you.
Mahesh: Let me shift gears. You talked about innovation quite a bit. What is your view on technology and the role technology can play in this sector, and how are you investing in it?
Alyson: Yeah, there's tremendous innovation happening in the water sector, and again, I think we haven't seen probably as much adoption or as quick adoption as we might like.
In large part due to regulatory constraints or other contracting constraints, what have you. We, at Woodard and Curran are actively investing in things like machine learning and artificial intelligence solutions because we really think that can help to ultimately optimize operations. To my previous response, prioritize those investments and improvements.
But as I mentioned, we're also looking at business model innovation. We actually do consider that to be innovation. It might not be technology, but it paves the way for technology adoption and how we can leverage different business approaches to bring new solutions to market. So again, things like infrastructure as a service, outcomes based contracting, and even a retainer model in some cases where we as a private entity can invest in innovation on behalf of our client partner.
So we're looking at sort of the range of hard technology data solutions, and then ultimately the business model side so that we can bring those to our clients.
Mahesh: I do think, by the way, business model innovation is an innovation. I remember doing this study back in 2007 on type of innovations, and there are three types.
The product innovation, process innovation, and business model innovation, and we know business model innovations have created multi-billion dollar companies. Look at Airbnb. That was a business model innovation, right?
Alyson: That's exactly right.
Mahesh: In a shared economy. Yeah.
Alyson: Yeah. And that's what we say, like Uber is not a technology. That's the innovation. It's the whole business model that didn't exist prior.
Mahesh: Right. So this is my favorite question. I always learn from other leaders. What are the top three leadership lessons you've accumulated over the years? And related to it, the second part of the question, what is your guidance to those who want to be leader in the water infrastructure business?
Alyson: Yeah, great question, and I would be really curious what some of your top answers are that you heard. So you can tell me after, but I'll tell you first how I would answer that. First I would say in particular in this industry, but probably broadly, it's really not about leading or it shouldn't be about leading.
It should be about serving. So I think to the extent you're approaching leadership as an opportunity to serve, be it, the water industry or your employees or your community, really taking the approach of service as a form of leadership I think is really important. I think that's what it comes down to.
And if, if your goal is to lead, you probably will not be as successful as you would if your goal was really to serve. I said previously communication is not a soft skill. I don't think it's a soft skill when it comes to leadership. I think it's a mandate, and one of the most important things that anyone should be focusing on who's interested in leadership is communication and communication in a way that resonates with the person that you are trying to communicate with.
So again, focusing. What are those outcomes? What is going to resonate with the person that you are communicating with and really getting good at? Really, it comes down to empathy, and that was my third, which is, leadership is about trust and empathy and external vision. And at the end of the day, that external vision, I think boiling down to people and service.
So it's a bit of a circular answer. But really coming back to trust, empathy, communication, and service.
Mahesh: So a lot of these are soft skills, right? They don't teach it in engineering schools you only learn the hard way.
Alyson: That's right, . That's right. And I think what's been interesting in my career has. In so many cases in the water sector, the technology or the technical challenges are not the most difficult challenges.
It's the people, it's consensus building, it's communicating benefits. Those are the challenges that I think often paved way for projects to move forward or have them grind to a halt. It comes down to being able to relate in that way. So the technical challenges are fun and interesting, and they're nice and clean, but those messy challenges around communication and people are often the most challenging and often the most important in moving things forward.
Mahesh: Now, I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, we've deployed in 120 different cities and we learned change management is so critical in driving. Cuz what good is it if you have the world's greatest AI program, if it's not used on the other side?
Right? So I'm realizing that the change management is just about as critical and driving that in the organization because we have cities where people don't know how to use computers and so you can't put an AI in front of them. It doesn't help. So I wanted to ask you last question. If there's one thing, what do you want your legacy to be?
I don't, maybe it's too early for me to ask you, but I'm sure you think about it, right?
Alyson: I don't have a personal legacy. There's not a legacy that I want for myself, but I do have a legacy that I would like for Woodard and Curran. I think that comes down to, again, what our vision is all about. And in the communities where we work, I would like the name Woodard and Curran, especially the communities where we're bringing that wonderful partnership of engineering and funding and operations and we're really embedded as a partner. I would like the name Woodard and Curran to be synonymous with improved water and environmental conditions. Like we really do strive to partner with our client communities and we would like to be known as an organization that's truly motivated to make the world a better place, one project at a time.
And if we are known in the communities where we are delivering. As bringing environmental and water related benefits to the people of the community, that would be a wonderful legacy that we would all be very, very proud of.
Mahesh: So, if I understand it correctly, the W in Woodard and C in Curran should be W for water and C for communities.
Alyson: That's great. I hadn't heard that before, but we might just steal that .
Mahesh: I just, I just made it up on the fly.
Alyson: That's great. You should be in marketing.
Mahesh: Yeah. . It's hard for an engineer to be a marketer, isn't it? Yeah. This is a terrific conversation from an engineer to be a leader of a professional services firm.
Trying to change the sector, create new business models really making a difference, in how people view engineering services firms, investing heavily in innovation and people, I think you have a plateful of opportunities in front of you. So I wish you best of luck and thank you for being part of this conversation.
Alyson: Absolutely. Thank you so much, and I'm very honored to have been invited as a private sector CEO, so thank you so much. I enjoyed chatting with you.
Mahesh: Thank you.